Hospice, DNR order, or CPR and aggressive treatment?
I preached this past Sunday at a church of less than 40 that met in a building that could hold a congregation of nearly 400. The average age of the membership was at least 65, and only that low because of one young lady in her 20’s who came with her family. There were about four couples and the rest were widows and widowers, or else had a spouse sick at home. Somewhat surprising to me considering the town and this part of the country, there were four or five African-Americans, and one of them led the singing.
I found it quite challenging to come up with a good sermon for a congregation that I had no experience with. I knew that they were the “conservative” church in town. I found it difficult to come up with something relevant that wasn’t TOO relevant. I wanted to teach from scripture, but I felt an obligation to choose a text that offered little challenge to the congregation, that didn’t push them very hard. At the same time, I can’t imagine preaching a sermon that doesn’t say anything or call for any change on the part of the hearer. I settled on Paul’s prayers in Ephesians, using chapter one for class and chapter three for the sermon. I emphasized God’s power in the first lesson, and his ability to answer prayer by means of that power in the second. I built the whole thing toward a call to pray for more than just a list of earthly concerns, but to include things like Paul says, particularly in 3:14-20, such as “that Christ may dwell in [our] hearts” and “that [we] may know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge,” because God is a god of power who answers prayers.
After the service we stayed for their monthly potluck. After class, service, and a meal, my overall impression was that these are sincere, faithful people. They didn’t seem to be legalistic, ornery, or anti-everything. At the same time, their church by all accounts is dying, with no hope of turning around. This is difficult for me to reconcile. Is it ever ok for a group of sincere Christians to let their congregation dwindle into nothingness? What should the minister’s role be in a situation like this? Is it more analogous to hospice care or CPR? Should the minister challenge them to come back to life, or help them to die gracefully?
I also felt a bit guilty because they paid me too much, but I didn't ask, and I need it.
posted by Jason Fry @ 8:01 PM
8 comments
8 Comments:
you said: their church by all accounts is dying...
IMO, the reason it may be dying is because it has been their church...
i don't know this to be true but i've seen it before. the reason people quit attending a "church" is because there is no life there, only law... you know, "do this, don't do that".
there is no life in that...
if that is true then this "church" died a long time ago nobody's had the guts to say it.
Could be...
I don't know them well enough to know whether they lawed themselves to death or not.
I just can't say that they're not Christians, and if they are, then somehow they need ministry in the sense of a continued call to follow Christ more closely every day. If they are Christians, somebody has to take care of them.
you said If they are Christians, somebody has to take care of them.
i disagree, that is the kind of top-down church structure that has contributed to the problem they are currently facing. i believe they need to take care of themselves.
i am, of course, assuming they are "mature" christians.
i don't know, i have such a different perspective on the church and what it is and what i think Jesus is calling it to be and do. i feel like all i do here is argue and i really don't want to be about that.
that being said, the people at the end of the caravan are (as i said to troy in a recent post on another blog) there for a reason... a very important reason...
they collect the camel dung for the cooking fires each evening.
if you are indeed called to follow behind the people you describe, i feel for you and i want to be a blessing to you because you're going to need it, and i confess i don't know how to do that.
Lord willing, i'll learn!
Jason,
With respect to this specific
circumstance....seems to me that
we all are called to serve. Where
and how? Shouldn't that be answer by
the Lord. I have found myself saying what I would and wouldn't do. Yet I do not really know since so many times
the Lord surprises me even if it means doing something I do not like. It reminds me of Jonah....being tasked to do something he did not want to do or even believe in.
As far as what is and isn't a church...well seems to me that there
are many different forms of church. We the body are the church...we can meet in buildings, we can meet at homes, we can meet in the wild, we can meet the Lord by ourselves. There does not have to boundaries and yet there can be boundaries.
Reminds me a bit of Romans 14 and the first couple verses in 15.
I have seen many churches (people) who are very legalistic and suffocating. They have alot of "truth" and little "grace." I do not feel that there
is freedom in Christ at these churches. They can be destructive to the body if it is too extreme.
Then I see the other extreme. The churches (people) who disagree so strongly with traditional churches
and perhaps the legalistic part of the body that they now become in a strange way what they disagree with.
They push their own "truth" on others and at often show little "grace" for those who do not see the
"truth" as they see it. And I do not
see the freedom in Christ at these
churches either. And I feel they can be destructive to the body.
As in John...as with Christ... there
has to be something that is at the same time full of grace and truth and be what the Lord calls us to be.
Perhaps the Lord will reveal this to us and we will understand better.
I do know this...20yrs ago life as an adult was so black and white. Very clear cut. I had it figured out pretty good. Life was so serious in
so many ways.
10yrs ago I was a bit confused on how life is and will be. Not so clear cut anymore. I still had some rigid beliefs. But I am less serious about it.
Today, I know there is alot to both sides of a story. Things are much less clear cut. I can more readily understand that I do not have it figured out and that the Lord has so much to reveal to me. Teach me.
I am less surprised when I am wrong and I try less to press my beliefs on others. Less not stop.
I know that all this may not be totally related to this thread but it is thoughts that have collected while reading and thinking about the other posts and responses you have gotten.
I pray that the Lord unstiffens my neck even more over the next 10yrs...God willing and the creek
don't rise. ;)
I hope that your pray and meditate on that church you visited and preached to....you were not there by chance.
God Bless,
DB
dr. bubba, you said Then I see the other extreme... they now become in a strange way what they disagree with...
yep. and the truth is i find i can feel it in myself and it sickens me. its what i was wrestling with in my second comment on this thread. thank you for callin' it like you see it...
you said They push their own "truth" on others and often show little "grace" for those who do not see the "truth" as they see it.
maybe thats what i'm doing but it certainly is a hard line to draw... and maybe in this statement you (like me) have become what you accuse me of?
it is one thing to push one's ideas about the church and what it is and isn't and should be and hopefully will be... its another thing do be devoid of grace for the people in the pews where Jason was.
i confess, after reading through my comments on this thread, i don't see my exact point of departure from graciousness. what i can see is how it may come across that way, if one makes some assumptions.
it would have been helpful if you had responded to some particular point of gracelessness rather than making a broad statement. please read no animosity here... i would genuinely like to know where my posts lacked grace.
peace
I can more readily understand that I do not have it figured out and that the Lord has so much to reveal to me...I am less surprised when I am wrong and I try less to press my beliefs on others.
Well said... at 28 (still plenty young), I find myself at that point much more often than at 23, or especially 19.
Miller,
I don't feel called to be a "camel dung picker-upper." Like in some of the Olympic bike/ski races, I want to be at the front of the pack, but I'm OK not being one of the guys 1/2 a mile ahead of the pack. (Don't push the metaphor too far.) Somebody needs to faithfully and diligently lead those who are lagging behind. At the same time, none of us gets too far without someone to follow. I'm reminded of what Hebrews 12 says about that...
As to the legalism on both sides of the middle, I've seen it both ways, and it ain't pretty.
Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
Jason
Hi Miller,
I try to withhold my comments on these issues most of the time. I am not even sure talking about these issues is very useful. Sometimes it helps to organize our thoughts or clear up what we are trying to express.
What I wrote comes not only from previous posts by others and yourself but from what I have seen over time with other churches and other believers trying to come to grips with these issues. So I should have included this in my post for more context. Have I been guilty of either extreme...I am afraid so. I may still be doing so in ways I do not see...I pray the Lord will reveal that to me and help me correct it.
It is also so hard to try to speak in truth with grace. Perhaps I was not very graceful in doing so...it would not surprise me since I have seen myself in shameless action before.
I made my post "broad" because I was not targeting or singling out any
individual. I am sorry that you felt I was directing this toward you. If it hit close home... I of course cannot control that. Of course it hits close to home for me too else I would not be as sensitive to it.
Also I am not sure if I would call your post in this thread devoid of grace....so that is another reason I did not direct this toward you specifically.
Yes at times I sense from your posts and blogs a sense of pushing but I also sense a very deep and good heart who does care about the well being of the body/church. I pray that the Lord shapes and molds you...and that He will answer your struggles and continue to reveal to you what he has planned for you.
Now to address one thing directly from your last post:
================================
you said, They push their own "truth" on others and often show little "grace" for those who do not see the "truth" as they see it."
maybe thats what i'm doing but it certainly is a hard line to draw... and maybe in this statement you (like me) have become what you accuse me of?
=================================
Yes it can be a hard line to draw..I agree. And yes perhaps I have become what I accuse others of being just by pointing this out.
But I submit for y'alls inspection the frequency with which I have spoken these thoughts out loud on any of these blogs. I feel that the times that one speaks with less grace and more true should be few and far between but that it sometimes has to be done. And the rest of time we should be trying to present both equally as best we can as imperfect ones.
It is easy to turn this on me but that would just be a distraction to the point I was trying to make.
I will not debate on any of this. And I pray that I will not speak of it again. I follow y'alls blogs because I want to understand what issues are out there besides what is going on in my little world. Jason's recent blogs and concerns finally drew me out. I have written Jason by email asking questions and commenting a few times.
Anyway, you have my thoughts.
IJG,
DB
p.s.
You wrote, "yep. and the truth is i find i can feel it in myself and it sickens me."
Please do not be too hard on yourself. Be patient and give it time. The Lord is with you. :)
Jason,
i've been the camel dung picker upper and its not as bad a gig as it seems... its just thankless. my point about the camel dung is not the ding in itself, rather that the most distasteful job in the caravan is absolutely essential to the health and well being of every individual therein. without dung there are no fires, without fires there is no cooking, without cooking there is no safe food, without safe food... you get the picture.
my only point is that for me, what you describe as your calling is about like picking up dung... but it is essential for the health of the caravan.
Dr. bubba,
thanks, you manage to speak truth and remain graceful. your comments are taken to heart.
i agree sometimes speaking the truth is graceless to the ear. but there is an even greater gracelessness in not speaking it.
i personally lean toward directness which is frequently distasteful to those who read/listen to it... its a fault i have. however, one of my basic assumptions is that a sharp knife cuts the quickest and hurts the least...
unfortunatly that is often a false assumption.
i struggle on.
peace
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